In this episode Garth interviews David Daniel from James Madison University in Harrisonburg, VA. David is a first generation college student who went from stand-up comic to earning a PhD in lifespan developmental psychology. He believes SoTL and the science of learning work are not theory-based and do not advance our understanding of the science of teaching (i.e., sometimes we have the wrong dependent variable). His passions continue to be helping on tribal lands in South Dakota and surfing in San Diego.