In this episode Garth interviews Stephen Chew in a Part 2 interview from Samford University in Birmingham, AL. Steve starts to discuss how he deals with psychological misperceptions in his classroom, leading to his nine cognitive challenges and classic nine-way interaction of teaching effects. Steve talks about the importance of establishing trust and developing competence and the evolving role that ChatGPT may play in all of this. With Bill Cerbin, Steve talks about their cognitive challenge framework as a way of thinking about teaching and learning. Steve mentions his continued work with NITOP and hints at some projects in his future.