Eric: [00:00:00] welcome to another addition of psych sessions. What an exciting part two episode. That’s what we call it when we have return guests. It’s Drew Christopher from alb. . I was gonna say ALB University, but that would be, I don’t know if it’s an upgrade or downgrade.


Drew: it’s a, it’s a lateral move, I think, but depends on who you ask

Eric: from Alben College in Michigan. Good

Drew: morning, drew. Good morning. How are you Eric? I’m great. How are you? Fantastic. I’m here with about 300 of my closest friends, so it’s always, it’s a good place to be. That’s

Eric: awesome. And I al as always, I want to thank a c t and the Society for Teaching of Psychology for the Space here today in Lindsay Maslin.

A c t director for allowing us to have the space you got up on early. I don’t know if it’s early for you on a Saturday morning. Um, there’s a whole conference out there, so I appreciate the time with me. Absolutely. Yeah. Enjoy it. So I think a lot has probably happened since we talked at Night Top, I think.

Was it 8 20 18 or 2019?

Drew: Oh, I think it [00:01:00] was at least 2018, if not earlier. I don’t. Yeah, it

Eric: 2018 would’ve been the earliest

Drew: nighttime. Okay. That is 2018. Yeah.

Eric: Yeah. So I think you were probably still editor then, weren’t you? Uh, the teaching of Yes. I was of psychology, if I can

Drew: remember back that

Eric: far. Yeah, that little bitty startup journal

Drew: that you were editing back to.

Oh, yeah, exactly. Yes, yes. That little fledgling journal that Randy Smith left me.

Eric: Yeah. Oh no, wait, that’s the other journal. I’m sorry. I got those journals. I

Drew: Oh yeah. People confuse me with Dana Dun all the time, so it’s understandable.

Eric: Wow. Is. Well, okay. I, I gotta leave that because that could have been a compliment or a put down to where, where my brain was going.

You get confused with Dana. Dun No, I’m just kidding. O okay. No, you have the circle glasses cause that’s says trademark.

Drew: I don’t know. Let me pull ’em out here. I don’t think they’re circled, they’re kind of more square kind of reading glasses.

Eric: They, they are the. Oh, are those two point ohs? Two point

Drew: fives.

Two point ohs. Very good. Yeah. 2.0 . Wow. Someone knows he has reading glasses. Well,

Eric: that’s because I wear two point ohs. Okay. So as readers I had cataract surgery, but I wore glasses for 50 years. [00:02:00] But, uh,

Drew: That’s my phone. Go. Go on. I don’t know

Eric: what’s going on. Oh, that’s okay. Well, you’re very popular and I’ve taken you away from your people.

Your peeps are looking for you at breakfast. I, where’s Drew? Where’s

Drew: Drew? Eric? There was no breakfast at the conference this morning. I had to go to Berger’s Bagel right down the street. Oh. You know, I was

Eric: gonna go to Dunking Donuts. Where’s the Dunking Donuts around here? There’s one right within, right across the street on one of the blocks.

Yeah, I, I could see, are you serious? No, I really could. We, you can see it from one of the, I think it’s, I’m sorry. I can’t, I can’t see. I don’t know what direction is here west, but, um, we were in a conference room a couple days ago, and out the window you can see the Dunking Donuts. .

Drew: I mean, you realize, I mean, I, I’ve never lived in Massachusetts before.

You know, someone who has family in, you know, Massachusetts is, you know, big into the Dunking Donuts thing. That’s kind of like hearing that is like, I gotta go see this place. Yeah,

Eric: yeah. You know, it’s one of those chains that’s not made it to Boise, Idaho either. We have almost all the chains you can think of, but not a Dunking

Drew: Donuts.

Wow. [00:03:00] Well, okay. I’m, I think I’m a ways off from retirement, but I think I most found my franchising opportunity moving to Boise, opening Dunking

Eric: Donuts. Well, now don’t tease me there, buddy. And we can come back to you’re a ways off from retirement if you want to. Um, I, you know, I, I, I wish I could say that I’ve got copious notes in front of me of the things that we were gonna talk about.

I, no you don’t. I

Drew: have . I hope they’re in your

Eric: head cause Okay. Alright. Have you ever heard a theater to the mind? I mean, you could , you didn’t best to burst the bubble of the

Drew: theater, of the We know each other so well. Do we really need to script? I mean, come on. No,

Eric: we don’t. And, but I have a couple of things to talk to you about, but what’s, what’s top of mind for you these days?

What you’re teaching or what you’re doing? Research on what you’re writing. The next book, what’s going on?

Drew: You’re being very optimistic to say the next book. I appreciate that. We’ll see if that comes to fruition. Okay. But right now, not much as brewing in that regard. No. My biggest concern daily, especially teaching a lot of freshmen in the fall, is to keep them in line like that really is.

Those [00:04:00] roughly 38 freshmen that I’ve got this fall. Just let’s make sure they’re showing up. Let’s make sure they’re doing things, staying on. Because it’s just, you know, it’s a tumultuous time. I was on sabbatical last fall, and from what I hear, the freshman had a really hard time adjusting to a quote unquote normal semester.

And I saw a little bit of that in the spring where I was teaching. And I mean, the class was actually smart. They, they had the ability, it wasn’t an issue there, but when I asked them to do something, they just kind of looked at me like, I’m watching Netflix right now, leave me alone. So I think they were so used to having their cameras off and doing other things that they could get away with, that when I actually asked them to do something, they really didn’t understand what I meant.

I said, take out a piece of paper. So it was just a weird semester in that regard, but this semester feels a lot more normal and I’m just trying to do everything I can to keep them on track,

Eric: so. So you’re not the first person in my set of interviews here at a c t to. This, it feels more normal. So obviously you’re teaching a face-to-face class.

Everything’s face-to-face for me. Yep. And what are you

Drew: teaching? General psych? It’s IntroPsych Psych 1 0 1. I’ve got. I believe 21 first year students in [00:05:00] there and 16 sophomores. So they’re all relatively young students. I’ve got a freshman seminar that has 15 of the same students in my intro class also in there.

So I’ve got 15 of my freshman twice. And that was intentional, like that was something the college built off of in the fall of 2020 when we brought our freshman class in. They were assigned to one professor for a first year seminar and a 1 0 1 class in a discipline, and that worked really well.

Eric: In the freshman seminar, is that a common read across

Drew: the entire campus?

There’s a common reading experience. Okay. So we have a common reading book, but otherwise, no, it is not. But we have common learning objectives. Um, we have basically it’s retention. It’s basically train training to be college students. Cause even though they’re enrolled in college, They’re not college students yet.

They’re still high school students who are attending a college cause they don’t know what college is about. So make sure they know what college is about. That’s, that’s the emphasis now mine is called public policy and film, so it’s not really psychology at all, but that’s also intentional cause I would like to get to know kids who are in public policy, who are in political science, who are interested in history.

And of course we have a lot who were interested in psychology as well. So it [00:06:00] gives me a chance to really kind of reach out and get to know kids across campus and you know, some of those kids. Years previous, or you know, they’re juniors, seniors doing their thesis and I’m on their committee. So it’s really kind of cool.

It’s the only other time I get to see them again. But it’s nice to watch them develop, even if they’re not psych majors, so to speak. Right. And on campus is 1600 students, so it’s not hard to do. So

Eric: 1600 students all be in, uh, private liberal arts. Yep. And religious affiliated, um,

Drew: uh, uh, nominally Methodist.

So we check that box, but okay. There are more Catholic students on campus than Methodist. . Okay. If that makes sense. Yeah. And so the plurality of students is, is Catholic, how many

Eric: psychology majors?

Drew: It depends on when you take the measurement. Sure. Um, but right now it would probably be roughly a hundred.

Eric: So 100 out of 1600 and probably makes you one of the most popular majors

Drew: on campus. Yeah, we actually biology and the economics and management, uh, clearly. And then, you know, there is that friendly competition between biology and psychology, cuz depending when you take the measurement, we could be two, they could be [00:07:00] three.

Uh, but our departments get along really well, which is important cause we have so many double majors in common. Um, there was, yeah, I think we were number one there for a while. , the secretary in the economics department ran the number of majors and we were topping econ by like three majors. But we think the reason for that is the professor always has his freshman signed the declaration of major form, the first day of class since retired.

So without him prodding them, they may have slipped a little bit for a semester. Ah, the, the,

Eric: the juicing

Drew: of the metrics. Correct. You got it. Yes. In a department that obviously doesn’t need it, but, you know.

Eric: And, um, how many full-time faculty in your department in psychology. , that’s not a, you know, that’s not a bad ratio for a hundred majors.

Right. Eight full-time faculty in 1600.

Drew: That’s 60 minor. So we have a lot of kids minoring in it too. Um,

Eric: yeah. Alright. Alright. And you, how long have you been there, drew?

Drew: A long time. And the reason I know that is cuz I start thinking about, [00:08:00] especially when I come to a c t or n O p or conferences like this, I start thinking about the people I’ve known in terms.

The number of decades I’ve known them, not the number of years. So I’m in year 22. So decade three isn’t I .

Eric: And, and that was your first

Drew: job outta grad school? No, I was at Anderson College in South Carolina for two years before I moved up there. Okay.

Eric: So you’re 24 years post PhD?

Drew: Um, yeah, as of June 16th, 2023.

It’ll be, oh God, you know the

Eric: exact, I guess I, I probably know the exact date I got my PhD

Drew: too. Well, it was also memorable just because my committee was great. Um, it was an interesting, it was just, it was a very proforma defense. And then when I got done, a professor was not on my committee, but who I’m still very close with Lisa Brown, who’s now at, um, Austin College in Texas.

She brought me my Boston Cream donuts. For, to celebrate. So, okay. So from Dunking Donuts on the University of Florida campus, I

Eric: might mind you, so, so there’s a, there’s an emergent theme here of donuts. So you’re, so, you’re big in the donut world.

Drew: I, I, I wouldn’t quite put it that way. I actually don’t [00:09:00] eat donuts that often, but if I’m around them, they don’t last long.

That’s why I don’t put them around now. Okay.

Eric: And so there you have a sweet tooth. Is it, would

Drew: that be fair to say? No, I actually don’t. It’s just once I get started, I. If that makes sense. Like Reese’s peanut butter cups, never buy those ever. Never will I buy Reese’s peanut butter cups because the, the bag’s not gonna last once I start eating ’em.

You know what I mean? I have no self-control for foods I like, I just, I don’t eat chip, I don’t put chip in the house anymore because, . If I op, I can’t just eat one. And it’s not LAIs, it’s all of them.

Eric: So I, okay, so let me re, let me refer, let me revise my statement. I think there’s a new theme emerging that you have an addictive

Drew: personality.

That would be, that would be true. There’s no question about that. Are you a video gamer? No. I, I, in college I kind of, yeah, I mean, in college I liked it a little bit. Sure, of course. But I never kept it up after


Eric: Okay. . I, I do have that actually. I probably do have the addictive food now that I pat my belly.

Um, but, um, I, [00:10:00] I can’t play video games because I do get addictive. Yeah. I, I never play, I very rarely played with my kids and they always begged me to come play this or that, and I knew that once I started I would be there for hours or days and I just couldn’t step away from it. Yeah, yeah.

Drew: I was, because I wanna keep, I wanna keep getting better.

and it’s, it’s hard. It’s actually worse now than it was back when I was a kid or in college because you know, you had to really compete against someone who was right there with you Now, , you can compete around against people halfway around the world. Right. Never meet them. You don’t have any idea who they are.

And watching my nieces do it, it’s kind of like, oh, I could be here forever. Like, I was getting addicted watching them play, and I’m like, oh, time to go away now.

Eric: So what’s the guilty pleasure when you’re not, uh, so I know you’re not editing the journal anymore, uh, when you’ve, when you’re done grading your papers at Panera, um Oh, absolutely.

What’s the. When you walk in and they go, drew, you know, as I imagine the cheers, [00:11:00] uh, look alike, right? Well,

Drew: it’s actually not far off. Yeah. Except for me, it’s, I’m draining the un, the unlimited SIP club. It might be going away. So if you’re a Panera Rewards member with the unlimited SIP Club, I might bankrupt it.

But other than that, I think

Eric: it’s, they can’t grandfather you into that. ?

Drew: Well, I guess they could, but why would they? Cause I think I’m the reason they’re gonna have to stop it because for like 8 95 a month, I drink like 30 bucks worth of coffee. Well that’s,

Eric: I mean, that’s not bad. I mean, you’re not bankrupting them if you, well, I know you use that four times the value.

I mean,

Drew: that’s not too bad. Well, there are plenty of people don’t take advantage of it, so I’m sure they’re making money or they doing,

Eric: yeah, the overall gross versus net, they’re coming out ahead.

Drew: But yes, if you’re in Michigan and you. Passing through Jackson on I 94, exit 1 37. The Panera and Jackson Road,

Stop in. I’ll probably be there. And the zip

Eric: code is,

Drew: uh, is it 49,068? No, that’s Marshall I 49. 0 0 4, I wanna say, I don’t know. Oh, I, I don’t, I don’t get my mail there. Sorry. Stump,

Eric: stump. You know, I’m surprised you don’t know all the Panera zip codes with all in the, uh, 40 mile

Drew: [00:12:00] radius, you know. Oh, I do have a map of, of, of where all the Panera is.

Is, is

Eric: there a Panera app?

Drew: That you can actually, I never got it for that very reason. I would, well here’s the thing, it’s about a 15 minute drive from campus or from my house. My house is like two miles from campus, so it would, it’s, and it’s on Interstate 94 to get there, which is like a, it’s just basically a major construction work zone.

Like it’s actually not an interstate anymore. And so I don’t go there as often as I normally do cause I wanna take the back roads, which are just longer and that sort of thing. So, ? Yeah, I, I’m just not there as much as I would if I had the app, I would go more often. Okay. Honestly, I would, and then I would get, yeah.

So I just don’t do it because I know what’s gonna happen if I get it. You know,

Eric: Starbucks has like their own credit card and you get points when you pick up Starbucks. Is there a Panera credit card? I’m sure there

Drew: is a points card. There’s a, there’s a rewards cor uh, yeah, they have a rewards card and um, it’s a really nice one too because it’s very much that sort of,

Variable ratio schedule, it [00:13:00] feels like, I’m sure it’s not, but all it is a card. You scan it when you place your order, and then what do they do? They don’t tell you how many rewards you have left. Oh my. So it’s not one of these like little punch cards. They’ve gone high tech, like a lot of places have. And early on it was really frustrating cause I’m like, I have no idea what I need to get a reward.

And so you have to keep coming back. And eventually you’d get one Next thing I know, I’ve got, you know, I’ve got three rewards. I’m like, where did these all come from? Woo-hoo. And, you know, it’s, and they all expire within a week. What a surprise.

Eric: So, okay. I, I’m, I’m gonna stop. You’re a, you’re a good egg for letting me play here.

Drew: Well, I’m talking about learning in, in class next week in my intro class. And so the pan. Panera program comes up there, so I’m just practicing my lecture for them. Oh, are you?

Eric: Okay. So, oh yeah. And, and plus you’re a good sport for letting me, let me do one more thing about this. Are, do you, you watch much TV at all?

Drew: Um, I have the TV on, but I don’t really comprehend it, if that makes sense. There’s

Eric: a, um, . There’s a Taco Bell commercial going on right now. We’re speaking in October of 2022. And it’s a, it’s a football player and I, I’m sorry, I don’t remember his name. Oh, yeah. [00:14:00] But the, this football player has a a one, a a Taco Bell restaurant, so to speak.

in his home and he goes to order Taco Bell and there’s this guy behind the counter that gives him a hard time. Yes. About you gotta have shoes on and your order will take a couple memories. Yeah. Vonte Adams, I think it is. Oh, thank, thank you. Yes. And you know, I’m thinking about, you should have the Panera version of that in your home where you can go and order.

Your order will be right up, uh, Dr. Christopher, and they make you wait for Panera and you get the point. I’ll scan your points card there

Drew: at the. , maybe I don’t, I don’t think that would be a big selling point for Panera, but maybe we could have Devonte Adams come to my house and film that commercial for Panera and I can rent it out to him.

So are you a football fan? Uh, yeah. The NFL I’m starting to pay attention to as it gets more interesting and we have some idea of who’s good and who’s not. Are you, are you a Detroit

Eric: Lions fan? Uh, being the Michigan guy,

Drew: I don’t really have n NFL team that. Super loyal too. I haven’t been born in New Orleans.

I’m trying to [00:15:00] stay loyal to the Saints. Um, but born in

Eric: New Orleans, I didn’t know that.

Drew: Yeah. I only lived there a year, so that’s why. Okay. Yeah. But still, if you need a tour guide around New Orleans, talk to Eli. Elizabeth and Elliot. Don’t talk to me. Um, yeah.

Eric: Well, they’re, they’ve always been gracious

Drew: hosts.

I can be a gracious host too. I just know my way around. I’d get you lost. Uh, but in a gracious way, um, . So I lived there for a year, and then I was, you know, I moved around the south a lot as a kid and then was in Texas primarily. So if anything, I’m a Cowboys fan, but I just can’t, I can’t believe I just said that.

So it’s very hard to root for any team that Jerry Jones owns.

Eric: Would, would you like me to edit that part out? Or you can decide later if you want me to. The Cowboys part

Drew: out. Well, no, you can leave it in. And they fired Jimmy Johnson, who was one of my favorite coaches, and they haven’t been the same since.

And it’s kind of like the curse of the Bambino football style. That’s how I look at it. So you

Eric: are a little bit of a sports fan or at least a sports history fan?

Drew: Oh yeah, very much. Well, I don’t know if I, I, I, I guess I like sports history. I, but I mean, I don’t think of Jimmy Johnson getting fired to sports history, but [00:16:00] thank you for pointing out.

That was 30 years ago. It was 30 years ago. Thank you. Appreciate that. The era

Eric: of Troy Aikman and those guys, you.

Drew: Yeah, I think of Troy Aikman. Why is this young guy announcing games? And I realized, oh, he’s a year older than I am. .

Eric: Not that you’re that old. Correct. Very good. Yeah. Not that you’re that old. All right, so, um, let’s see.

Where are we gonna go from here? Re. is your textbook a research methods and statistics or research methods or statistics? I can’t

Drew: remember. I’m sorry. Statistics. And there’s a little bit of research methods thrown in for Well, there has to be, right? Yeah, exactly.

Eric: How can you now, right and tell it’s, it’s published by Sage.

It is. And first edition. First edition. And how is that going?

Drew: Um, I guess fine. Um, , how, how is it going in terms of like how my students are reacting, how other people’s students are reacting? I think we have the people who have adopted it have adopted it, and th this is where we are at this point. So if we’re going to revise it, we’re [00:17:00] gonna have to figure out how we, who do we wanna target without alienating the people who have already adopted it, if that makes sense.

Eric: So, ha has, have the folks at Sage started talking to you about, all right, here’s a revision plan and here’s the feedback we’re getting and things like that. Not

Drew: really. Okay, so I’m not sure what that means. Maybe if it’s as slow and steady as she goes. And

Eric: what, what was the, when was it first published?

Drew: 2017.

Eric: So the pandemic has probably

Drew: messed with that. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah. It’s messed with a lot of things. Yeah,

Eric: it, it certainly has.

Drew: Okay. Yeah. And so they probably, I mean, again, the publishing industry and I, I, I am not up on it, so to speak, given how turbulent it was three years ago, I can’t imagine what it’s like now.


Eric: that enjoyable for.

Drew: writing the book. Yeah. Yeah. It was, I mean, it was frustrating at times just because, you know, you have to overcome the writer’s block and so forth. But the nice thing, especially about research methods and statistics is that you can only get so creative with it. [00:18:00] There’s, there’s, there’s, the sidelines are better defined in a book like that than it would be in like an intro psych book.

Mm-hmm. . That’s my feeling. Um, and it’s just a feeling. I dunno if it’s true or not. So from that standpoint, yes. But I mean, I got a lot of good developmental feedback early on in the process. And, um, Sherry Jackson, who has a statistics book as well, you know, she was telling me what she did with her book was just turn her notes into a book.

I’m like, okay, that’s what I did. So it wasn’t like I was inventing the, I didn’t sit down and say, gee, I think I wanna write a book on statistics. I had this pile of notes from teaching the C from most of 17 years and was like, I’m gonna do what Sherry did. And so there you.

Sherry was the person who kind of inspired me to do it in the first place and gave me that advice. And I think that’s probably what I would do in the future is take stuff I’ve already done to turn it into a book, rather than sit down and say, how can I do this from scratch? Cause I don’t know how I would.

I would do that. Yeah. It’s kind of like what, you know.

Eric: Where do you, where do you wanna go from here? I had an idea to talk to you about, um, what’s on your mind these days about higher ed and careers, and [00:19:00] how much longer are you gonna do this?

Oh, yeah. Are, are you pretty happy about. What you’re doing day in, day out. Yeah.

Drew: I think maybe at the micro level once the day gets going. I love it, but I’m not gonna lie, there are times it’s just like I, yeah, I kind of feel like really this is happening again, whatever this is. Didn’t we just deal with this and, and yes, we did just deal with this seven years ago.

So I mean, things go in cycles as you will know, but it does feel like. Higher ed is becoming lower, let’s just say. Yeah. Um, and I don’t think it’s the, like the difference between secondary and higher education has shrunk. No. Secondary education is now looking a little bit more primary, so to speak. And I don’t even know where primary education is these days, so, yeah.

And I, I, you know, you eventually, if you don’t fund education, , it’s not going to do well. I mean, if you don’t repair the building, the building’s eventually going to decay, perhaps even collapse, and I don’t think it’s that severe, [00:20:00] severe and higher in secondary education. But we haven’t paid the teachers.

We don’t respect the teachers. I mean, I’m talking pri, you know, primary secondary education, right? And so what are you gonna get? I mean, you’re gonna get these teacher shortages. So we’re gonna have classes of 80 students online where, you know, you can get some consultant to pre-record classes that these eighth graders watch what’s gonna happen long term.

And we saw this coming. One of my colleagues, uh, husbands teaches middle school and I mean, he was telling us six, seven years ago, just, you wait really? And here we are. And the pandemic accelerated a lot of. Yeah. But yeah, I, I don’t, I, you know, I look at my freshman class this year and I’m like, this, there’s a lot of reason for optimism here.

So at that level, I’m, I’m feeling really good, but then I look around and I talk to colleagues here, and their, their institutions are hemorrhaging colleagues. I’m like, okay, we’re definitely not at that stage, but I’m like, oh, you know, okay. I guess albion’s, okay. Maybe it’s not as bad as I think it is once I get out there and see what else is going on.

So it’s really hard to judge. I’m not sure. , [00:21:00] my knee jerk reaction is always say everything’s going to hell in a hand basket. But I do that on for everything. So I don’t think that’s a really fair assessment. You know, if I step back and I’m really analytical about it, uh, you know,

I, there’s been a slow decay in education in general my, during my entire career. And I think we’re starting to see the real. damage. It’s

Eric: done. I know you’ve been department chair in your past and I still continue to, to surfer department chair for a few more months. And

Drew: how many more days, Eric? Oh, it’s not, you know, how many days?

Eric: Well, you know, I had an app on my phone. I had the countdown, , and I’ve actually taken it off. Okay. , because it, it, um, because for a lot of ways it probably wasn’t a healthy

Drew: thing for me to have. No, probably not. And maybe, maybe come April it will be. It was

Eric: funny as I’ll get out, I gotta tell you, when I in front of my dean or in front of certain people on campus, I could look at my phone and say 325 more days.

But it also got to be a little bit kind of minorly insulting to [00:22:00] other people when I would tell them, because it seems like you’re counting down to getting something over. Cool. And

Drew: so, yeah. You’re wishing your life away, so to speak. Yeah, yeah,

Eric: yeah. That’s right. It’s not, it’s it, you know, time is not something that in general you wanna look to get

Drew: over with, you know?

Right, exactly. I’d like to have more of it in a lot of ways, .

Eric: Yeah. Especially in my position where I am in my life. I shouldn’t be wishing my time to be over with. I be wishing for more time. Exactly. In your life, not less time, but the, the trend that I’ve notice, I I, I’d like to know if you’ve noticed it too, and I know this is kind of trite and kind of a, maybe be stereotypical, but just entitlement.

But I’ve seen it, I’ve seen it now in places I wasn’t expecting. I think there’s probably always been entitled students, a, a subset of entitled students. Uh, I don’t think that’s surpris. . But what’s happened lately, I would say in the last couple of months for me as department chair I’ve seen entitled [00:23:00] parents, Uhhuh contacted me and com and complaining or arguing on behalf of their college aged.

Adult child and very recently, um, entitled faculty in my own department. Mm-hmm. , which has taken me for a loop because that, that didn’t happen during the pandemic and that didn’t happen until just the past few months where that’s emerged. And so the triple whammy of that in my, uh, professional life, Uh, surprised

Drew: me.

Yeah. Um, have I seen that the entitlement? Well, five, four or five years ago I got a call from an alum who was working in HR and was like the associate director for HR at a very large Fortune 500 company. And we’re just touching, basing how things were going and so forth. And, you know, she asked me, do you ever get calls from parents about the students?

And I’m like, very rarely. Um, and when I do, they’re usually pretty easy. I mean, I’ve got, you know, I can see it coming like I. . [00:24:00] I’ve got this handful of students every semester that I’m like, this might be an issue. And it’s never, you know, a problem. Once I tell the parents, here’s the reality of the situation, I can diffuse it.

But her story was a little bit different because she as an associate director in HR at this very large Fortune 500 company, for which, I mean, people should be grateful to have a job. She’s getting call from the employee’s parents. . Well, I kid you not, I mean some of these employees are older than she was at the time, cuz she was only, I think, I don’t know, 30 or so at the time.

Uh, I say only, um, yeah. So yes, I think it’s out there more than just academia. Yeah. In terms of just the sense of entitlement, um, I don’t wanna speak for my school in particular, but I suspect in general what we’re seeing in the aftermath of the pandemic, even though we’re still in it, I suppose, um, this work from home trend.

Yeah. There’s some advantage to working from home and I wonder if the people who wanna work from home are the same people who are complaining about having to work from home because it’s so stressful because of X, Y, and z. [00:25:00] I get get the feeling and, and I do agree there were some good things that came out of the pandemic in terms of like educational practices.

I am much better with technology now, like I can, I can get myself around a course web for a lot of different reasons other than just giving online quizzes. , this idea of like, gee, having like, I don’t know what, there was cohorts and classes. So we enter the freshman seminar in two classes with the same professor, assuming the professor is reasonably competent and actually wants to be teaching.

Yeah, that worked really well in the fall of 2020 for retention, so we’re doing it again. I think it’s gonna work great again. But there are also some disadvantages. So you have to take the good with the bad. You just can’t take the good and leave the bad there. If you wanna work from home, there are gonna be things that have to get done on campus if other people have to pick up that slack.

Okay, what are you doing from home to pick up your end of the deal? And that’s not happening. I that I will say unequivocally, that is not happening. There are people who have taken advantage of the situation. And you know what, over a million people in this country died from, from Covid, right? So it, you know, there are a lot of levels of, of offense so to speak.

But yeah, I dunno, there’s some people who have definitely taken [00:26:00] advantage of it, no doubt about

Eric: it. And you know, I think even in our department, We, we’ve tried to be accommodating. We’ve had one faculty member want to telecommute and, uh, a f uh, a tenured professor, associate level professor who has moved to Oregon with our blessing.

Yeah. Uh, she still has to teach, do research and do service and, um, , we went through the protocols and happily approved that. And we have some faculty members who are still, um, teaching from home because they discovered that they like it, but they, again, they still have to do the full-time job. It, it is gonna be a new world because we have to figure out, do we, do we keep their offices on our campus empty?

For when they just want to drop in. Right. Do we reallocate that space? Do we keep their lab spaces empty? Yep. In, in the separate building that we have, do we reallocate that to people who are, who, who are on campus? [00:27:00] Um, and how do we, how do we navigate those difficult conversations of, you know, traditionally faculty in my department have had a dedicated office space and a dedicated lab space.

Yeah, exactly. by by their own choice if they’ve stopped coming to campus and they’re requesting online courses semester after semester. then do we keep providing empty space for them? Right?

Drew: Yeah, we have. We have something on our campus and maybe it’s always been there, called the space committee, which for some reason my rockstar department chair decided she didn’t have enough to do.

So she decided to join that, or was asked to join that? Probably cuz she actually. does her job so well. Um, so she’s on this committee and I dunno what they’re doing, but it sounds, it sounds horrible. It just absolutely sounds horrible. And that’s probably part of what we’re seeing. And Albion is very different than Boise State in terms of its emphasis.

And so when we, you know, had the chance to hire like online adjuncts, it was like, oh, what? Oh, that’s not what we do here. But we’re warmer to that [00:28:00] idea. And so we can now offer a class in human sexuality and forensic psych. because we’re now warming up to this idea. So again, there are good things that are coming from it.

Yeah. But do I want to be, no. And do I think that the tenure track people in the department should be working 400 miles away? No, but I don’t know what direction we’re heading in and I don’t know what’s practical. I wanna do what’s practical and pragmatic. I think our students, at least, again, those at Albion are.

No, we want our professor here. These online classes are okay to give us something extra, but if they start having to take half their classes online, Albion’s gonna shut

Eric: down tomorrow. Well, Albian, you know, provides, you know, you’re getting that private liberal arts education, I would imagine the premium that you’re paying for is personal, you know, face instruction.

Right? Where, where, and if you want it, you’re getting that. experiential learning, whether it’s a research experience or an internship or uh, you know, peer, you know, some sort of [00:29:00] peer-to-peer experience. Yeah, exactly. Um, if you want online learning, um, actually there are plenty of places where you can get your, you’re in complete online bachelor’s in psych at plenty of places, not just University of Phoenix anymore.

Right, exactly. Um, we’ve probably got hundreds of colleagues. , at least dozens of colleagues here at a c t who have, uh, their face-to-face version of their psych program and their online version. And there’s two separate tracks.

Drew: Yeah, I’m pretty sure. Oh, there, I think there’s, there’s more than a handful of schools like that

Eric: now.

Yeah. And um, well, I will just tell you that, um, more than 60% of our student credit hours and under for our undergraduates are generated by adjunct faculty. ,

Drew: I’m not, I mean, I am surprised to hear it’s that high, but I’m sure the direction is going that way. And I’m sure we probably will too. Cuz again, LB and it’s like an added bonus to have this human sexuality class.

If it’s a choice between nothing or an online version, we’re gonna take the online version. Right. But if you know we’re gonna [00:30:00] offer the IO class, well guess what? We have somebody who’s hired for that line. They need to be on campus. That would be me. So I’m there. Um, yeah. And it’s, it’s could be an age thing, but do I want to teach, I mean, teaching online as like a novelty?

Yes. Maybe during the summer. We have a lot of online summer classes while kids are doing their internships or doing whatever off campus so they can go home to San Francisco or Chicago or wherever they may be from, and still take classes at a, at albian discount. Um, that seems to go fairly well. I mean, from what I’m feedback that I’ve gotten Heather taught in the program during the summer, that works well.

During the summer being the key qualifier there, I’m just always afraid of the foot in the door effect and somebody somewhere is gonna get a big idea that, hey, this made X amount of dollars during the summer. Imagine what it could do during the school year. And then I’ll be sending out my Vita for other jobs.

Eric: So I drew Is your trading and social psychology? Yeah. You just mentioned foot in the door. Yes. Okay. So that [00:31:00] reminds me, Tell me about the work that you’re doing as the pre-conference director for teaching at S ps P. Um,

Drew: it’s a pretty low-key gig now, maybe that’s because Neil Lutsy just, you know, I’ve worked with him very closely for really the better part of over a year.

Unfortunately, our first two years were online. I say unfortunately, that’s again a personal preference. Um, and I volunteered to put it online last year just because I kind of figured it’s not gonna be as smooth as they’re saying. And sure enough it wasn’t. Um, so I think that’s part of it. Now, this is our first year coming up that’s gonna be in person.

So Neil’s probably gonna be getting an email from you soon saying, Let me just make sure I’ve got all my, I dotted and t’s crossed here cause I’ve never done this in person before, but the SB SB staff is so great, like, so much just magically happens behind the scenes. And then they give me something, I’m like, okay, I can plug the plug in the schedule from here.

So it’s really not, I think the most, the, the hardest part of the most intense part is between November 15th and December one when the [00:32:00] submissions close. And I’ve gotta get the acceptances out in the schedule made. But the reality is, . It’s not hard, it’s just, it just takes time. Give me an afternoon and an evening and I can probably get it pretty well done, and I’ve started to get the templates ready for acceptances and so forth.

So I know the routine fairly quickly. Again, it’s kind of like editing the journal on a smaller scale in that I get to interact with people that I may not ordinarily act with. Like I haven’t talked to Dave Strotz in a couple years. Well, I’ve talked to a lot of people in a couple years, but now inviting him to be one of our keynote speakers along with Beth Morling, it gives us a chance to, you know, hang out with people.

Well, I hang out with Beth a lot, but Dave, you know, it’s like I get to reacquaint somebody I’ve known for 20 years. That’s kind of awesome. That’s awesome. So, yeah, and again, it’s, it’s very much focused, and I don’t know if Neil intended it this way to be aimed at younger teachers and graduate students, which I really like, cuz I, you know, I, we have younger faculty in my department, which is great, but they’re trained in neuroscience and clinical, which is, I mean, fantastic.

But now I get to hang out with people who are trained like me, so to speak. And it is [00:33:00] interesting to see. . I don’t know. Different. They are, they’re not, I know difference’s the right term, but just seeing where I was 24 years ago,

Eric: s Spsp is a, I’ve, I’ve never been, because that’s not my training, but I can change.

That is You can

Drew: change my training. Well, no, I can give you, I can get you in some way somehow if you wanna do a pre-conference. I think I’ve got a few more years. Well,

Eric: Thank you. I appreciate that. That’s not what I was, I was aiming for, but it’s a, it’s a, uh, it’s a beast, right? I mean, it’s a huge conference.

Drew: It is now. Yeah. I don’t know how actually big it is, but it is, I’ve, I know we’ve had 4,000 attendees at some point in the recent past that,

Eric: that strikes me as a beast. And aren’t there like 17 or 18 different

Drew: pre-conferences That’s more than that now? I think it’s more like 23. Yeah. I mean, . Yeah. I don’t know.

I didn’t, I did count them a couple weeks ago and I want, it’s in the twenties

Eric: somewhere at least. I mean, that’s just least as large as a good attendance at epa. Um mm-hmm. , that’s larger probably than mpa. Um, [00:34:00] Yeah. I mean that, that is a

Drew: beast. Well, if you look at the pre-conference titles, I, they’re not, they don’t all map onto social psychology boom, so to speak.

Or personality psychology. Exactly. So there’s a lot of applications that I don’t think in the earliers of the conference, the application part of the social and personality was as accepted in the conference. That’s just my impression. I don’t know. But starting off as a young graduate student doing applied work, it didn’t feel like that was home for me.

Now it feels more home. I can find people there that I’m like, I can sit down and talk with you for hours. , which I didn’t feel that way 20 years

Eric: ago because of the, because the diver, the programming has expanded so much. There’s diversity for

Drew: all. Yeah. I would say I think anybody who has any, even if you’re not trained in social and personality, you can probably find something there that you will find of interest.

Sure. Okay. Like I think a neuroscientist can go to this conference now and find some people who are doing social neuroscience research and have a grand time for a couple days.

Eric: Gotcha. Okay. Drew, you know, I’m, , maybe I’ve been overthinking the, trying to find themes with you this morning, [00:35:00] but to me, I think one of the themes that again, continues to emerge is that your dedication to service, you have found ways to serve.

I mean, the 12 year commitment to t o P is huge. And now the Sr, I was gonna say src D uh, sb, sb

Drew: don’t, don’t give anybody any ideas right now. Well,

Eric: no, I mean, I was just thinking about these affiliate organizations, right? I’m sorry. That’s where I was saying that. Would that be fair to say is that you have this very strong service, um, component in your

Drew: life?

I guess so now you’re saying that I found these ways. I’m not sure if I found them or they found me. Okay. And what I mean by that is back in, I don’t know, 2005, September of 2005, I got an email from Steve Davis saying, congratulations, you’ve been nominated to be considered for editor of t o p. Really? I still don’t know to this day who nominat.

no idea. But

Eric: after that email, you had to do a couple of things for the process

Drew: to go forward. Well, yeah. I mean, I had to submit a cover letter explaining, you know, why I [00:36:00] think I would be good at this. I had to submit my CV and so forth, and I, you know, obviously Randy didn’t get in the way of it. So that was, thank you, Randy.

Um, so yeah, I did have to do some things, but it wasn’t like I had like three weeks, three weeks of intense work to get this position and I had to gee, fly down to New Orleans to interview with the executive committee. That was real rough. Let me tell you what I mean. Going to New Orleans wasn’t bad for you.

No, exactly. And you know, getting to sit around and talk to, you know, Ruth Alt and Randy and Bill Busks and other folks. I mean, that was like a fun afternoon. So yeah, I did have to do some things, but the reality is that seemed to find me. And then, I don’t know if it was Neil or Angela Leg that contacted me, and maybe it’s cuz they couldn’t get anybody to apply.

I don’t know. Would you be interested in, in this position? I’m like, well, the timing is really right. You know, I mean, how about that? So, I mean, Angela and Neil knew that I was stepping down as, as editor. Figure, Hey, this will be a nice way to fill your time. And you know, as Neil said, it’s nowhere near as rigorous as editing the journal.

Um, there’s a little bit of time here and there, but otherwise it’s, it’s really a lot of fun. Um, just because, kind of like what Lindsay said yesterday [00:37:00] morning, it gives an opportunity to people to find their niche, to find their group of people, so to speak. And so

Eric: that’s what I like that Well, you’re picking speakers for S sps

Drew: P, right?

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I, I, I pick, well, I pick is the right term. There is. Relationship between McMillan and the pre-conference where they Oh, gotcha. Okay. They provide a speaker. I have no idea what that relationship is, but Neil said, just ask this person and they’ll get you a speaker. I’m like, okay. Um, and then, yes, I choose the other keynote speaker, so, okay.

Yes. So I went to mi uh, the McMillan rep that I deal with, and she was kind of like, oh yeah, Dave Strout is available. He’d to do it. And he’s gonna give a great talk, very similar to what Susan and I did yesterday on, uh, preparing students for. . Awesome.

Eric: So what other service things do I not know about that you have done in your career?

Drew: Oh, I mean, I do a lot with the AP exam. The AP psychology

Eric: exam. Oh, right, right. Aren’t you on the question committee or the ?

Drew: Yeah, I’m on. Yeah, I, what’s a call? Call it? [00:38:00] Well, on the advisory board for the new curricular. I am writing questions for the new curricular framework exam that’s gonna start in maybe a few years.

We’re not sure when it’s gonna start, so please don’t, you know, I wanna make sure that’s clear. If this doesn’t get edited out, we don’t know when the new test is gonna take hold as Amy Feinberg’s editor talked yesterday. Um, so yeah, I’m doing a lot with that. Um, what else have I done? I I was, can

Eric: can you, can you talk a little bit about what, what is the new test in that is in

Drew: development?

Yeah. Well, it’s, it’s just, it’s, it’s centered around the i p I, the IntroPsych in. and the five pillars with the undergirding of the intro class and the research methods and statistics. So if you look at the I P I, for people who know about that, the AP course now is gonna have five units as opposed to nine.

And those five units are the i p units. Okay. Um, then in addition to that, there’s going to be a lot of data analysis, a lot of research method skills. There’s gonna be an argumentation section on the test, all of which are still getting worked out. So it’s going [00:39:00] to be more of a what can you do than what do you know?

I think the

Eric: way we’re headed, so the ap, the current AP. The multiple choice

Drew: section of it, it’d still be there. Yeah. There’s still gonna be multiple choice. There’s still gonna be free response questions. I think. I think that’s the plan at this point. Talk to Amy Feinberg. Amy Feinberg is in charge of all of this.

Um, but what’s the revision then to make the test different? The, the way the test is going to be written is gonna be more skills-based than content-based. Okay. If that makes sense. So, you know, they, there could be a question, I suppose on like learning or something, so. Okay. You’re not gonna necessarily have to define what an unconditional stimulus is.

but rather, you know, pick that out of a research study description.

Eric: And so, but how’s that different from a f Frq That’s not

Drew: No, that’s exactly right. Oh, I see. It’s gonna be more like the frq in multiple choice formats. Gotcha. Okay. So to speak. All right. And I’m not really sure that makes any sense, but having written so many of these questions for the committee and you know, the test development committee, that is to consider, um, I think they’re trying to decide exactly how to do that.

Okay. because the [00:40:00] argumentation section is going to be apparently some sort of open-ended something, but they’re not sure what it is. And you’ve been

Eric: involved at the gre

Drew: GRE test development as well? Yes. Yeah. Yep. I’m actually chairing that this year, and I say that kind of hesitantly, cause I don’t know what that involves other than running a meeting in January.

So yeah. Yeah, and I, lots of item

Eric: development there. I, I know I interrupted you in your list of things, you know, and I know that the GRE folks have no control over this, but the No, no. And I’m, uh, not being critical of the gre, I’m not about to be critical of the gre, but I am about to be critical of some graduate programs and a trend that I’ve seen.

My students have told me about who are applying to graduate schools that I do not care for is that there are some graduate schools out there who are saying because of the pandemic, because of covid, that sending in GRE scores are optional. Yep. And I think that puts our students who are applying to graduate schools in a very precarious [00:41:00] position because they don’t know if they should or not.

Right. So if you. , verbal or quant, one’s in the 70th percentile, one’s in the 64th percentile. Do you send in or not? Right. And our students fret over that. Yes. And so again, this is not a criticism of the

Drew: GRE and I don’t know what to tell ’em. That’s the other thing too. I don’t know. I would like to be able to say,

Eric: You know, I think if you scored up in the nineties and both of course you said, I don’t, I can’t imagine

Drew: that hurting anybody.

Well, I mean, in the good old days, the 70th and the 64th percentile would’ve been okay, that’s probably gonna be competitive. A lot of schools now, I don’t know, cuz if the only people sending them in are the kids at the 80th percentile and above and you’re sitting down here at the, you know, 70th 64th percentile, do you now look bad?

So yeah, I think that’s a huge problem. But, and I, I, I’m not convinced this whole optional thing is going to. required. Again, I think it’s gonna stay optional for a while. That’s just the feeling

Eric: that I have, which [00:42:00] is, which is a crappy practice by graduate programs. Tell ’em what you want. Don’t make the student figure out

Drew: what you want.

Exactly. Yeah. Give them a list. Here’s what’s required, period. None of this optional stuff. Right?

Eric: Because, and, and May and I, I, I suspect giving the graduate program the, you know, the, uh, the doubt that, uh, they were trying to be nice about it and saying, oh no, it’s just optional. Don’t even take it or not.

But then students fret again about, well, I, I’m gonna take it some, some graduate programs required it, so I took it anyway. I’ve got the scores. Is it gonna look bad if I don’t, if I have the score, don’t send it, and all this

Drew: stuff. Yeah. It’s causing more stress, I think, and I’m seeing that in my own students as well.

Absolutely. Absolutely. On the one hand, I mean, and, and now I, this is happening, I can assure you at least anecdotally, is that some students are looking at graduate programs and saying, oh, optional, I’ll apply there. So they’re just looking for the schools for, its optional, so they don’t have to take it at all and save the money, which there’s logic there [00:43:00] that’s not, I don’t think you should be, you.

and I’ve said this to them, you don’t wanna be basing your future because your graduate program is your first job. This is not going to school. It’s your first job. Realize that based on whether or not they require a standardized test.

Eric: Well, and I actually, I do have students who shop for, they don’t want to take the GRE at all.

Yeah. And so they shop for programs that don’t require the

Drew: gre. Exactly. And so when they hear that an MSW program doesn’t require the gre, that’s where I wanna apply. I’m like, do you wanna go into social work? I’m not sure. You don’t want to? No, don’t do that. Yeah.

Eric: So I, I don’t, you know, for what it’s worth, um, if the GRE folks, when you have their ear, if you ever, if you ever had their ear and you could say, Hey, can you give some advice to graduate program?

To knock it off . Yeah, I heard, I heard from this Bozo once when I met him in Pittsburgh. That’s bugging students and you don’t have to do that.

Drew: Well, yeah, except I think, [00:44:00] my guess is the folks at ETS and college board think the same way you do and I do. Like they would like some, like be clear, right?

Because this is, I mean, I want, I don’t know how much they’re getting from students or what have you asking, what do I do? Because nobody

Eric: knows. Yeah. And it’s, and you. And it’s okay to require it, right? I, I’m not, I’m not, I don’t, I’m a capitalist. I know that’s maybe evil to say I’m okay if ETS makes money off of this thing.

I don’t want ets to tell people to tell graduate programs to not use it. But, but tell graduate programs to be definitive. Right.

Drew: Yeah. Well, I think you’re right. I think they were trying to do students a favor. I, I see. So too. And they missed the mark. Cause what they did was just create more anxiety for a group of students right now that’s more anxious than they’ve ever been about their future.

So this is, this is not what they needed,

Eric: but Abso Absolutely. Drew, I’ve almost kept you an hour, but I want to check in with you and see was there anything top of mind for you that, oh my [00:45:00] God, I wanna make sure I talk about this with Eric. , I’ve got a rant and I’m gonna walk in there and I’m gonna rip him a new one.

Or, uh, something’s, you know, some publisher did this or that, or I heard this story last night at the social hour. What, what’s, what’s up? What? I wanna make sure we cover

Drew: everything. Yeah. Um, I don’t know if there’s anything I wanted to rant about, per se. Okay. Um, retirement plans. I’m gonna wait and see how the world evolves for the next five years, , because as I was talking to one person yesterday, who’s, I think determined that they’re gonna be teaching for another eight years.

I mean, I hope I’m teaching another eight years, let’s put it that way. I hope I have that option for a lot of reasons, but, you know, would I go for 15 more till I’m 67? I don’t know. Would 62 do it for me? How, how old are you

Eric: now? 52. So, Technically, I mean, I don’t know what the retirement is in your state. I went to a retirement meeting the other day, uh, in the summer actually, and I was told that technically I could have retired at [00:46:00] 55.

Drew: Yeah. Well, I think in terms of like legally tapping into your retirement savings, that’s the

Eric: earliest you can do, but there are some penalties and then 59 and a half is the number I hear a lot. Yeah. And. . Then 62 is another benchmark. And then if you, if you go till 70, you get your full social security benefits.

Correct. There ain’t no way I will teach until 70 . Right.

Drew: Cause you’re only 45 now. So. Who me?

Eric: Yeah. That is very kind of you. Uh, and, uh, if you listen to the fifth anniversary episode, you’ll hear me rant about a, uh, an Arby’s receipt where they put the senior citizen discount on it for me, without asking me, oh my God,

And I didn’t realize it until after I got home and Garth and I are talking about it and I rant about it a little.

Drew: So you don’t want me to tell you that about, oh, two months ago when I bought a bottle of wine at Meyer, they, ID. . [00:47:00] You don’t wanna hear that, do you?

Eric: Uh, no, I can hear that. And actually they’ve started that in Idaho.

I think that might be a national thing. Yeah, it’s a They have to Id no matter what. Yeah, I don’t, I think so too, but I don’t take that as a, they think I’m young. I take

Drew: that as it’s, oh, I do. I’m, I’m very vain. It’s a federal.

Eric: Well, here’s the thing. I am too . I’m vain too, but you take it as vain. I love being carted.

I take it as vain. Someone put the senior citizen discount on my Arby’s receipt without asking me .

Drew: Yeah, I don’t know how it would take that. I would probably, yeah, I think I’d probably have the same reaction you did, but if I saved a buck 29, I might actually, okay, here’s

Eric: the thing. I don’t wanna save 99 cents on my

No, I said a buck 29 . I don’t. Okay. I don’t care. Under Underdo, the dollar is not my litmus test. You know, it was like, oh man, I know I’m getting older, but really , ask me next time. I, I love Arby’s cuz you know they’ve got the meats, right? Right. But [00:48:00] I wish they were the sponsor of this episode, but they’re not.

I wish I had Mountain DeWit sponsored as well, or I’ll be in college, but for that matter. But, um, it was like, oh man, it’s on there. Yeah, I, I don’t know. I used to think I had five to seven more years. I think I have two to

Drew: three. Well, I think Cause you’re doing your second run as department chair. Third run.

Third run, yeah. Oh yeah. Okay. Yeah, there’s, yeah. Yeah. My understanding is it’s not a state thing, it’s a national thing, is that if you. retire becomes separated from your employer after age 55, you can tap your retirement accounts with that employer without a penalty. Now, the fact I’ve looked into this or it’s been looked into for me, might tell you something.

Maybe I should be. Yeah, it, it’s been looked in for you. Well, here’s on your behalf. Well, two years is two years ago, spring of 21. As I was finishing my 20th year at Albion about three weeks before the end of the semester. And of course that was the pandemic year where it was just like, okay, let’s get this over with.

I get, um, an email from t i a. [00:49:00] Congratulating me on finishing my 23rd at. Well, that was nice and noting that I had never met with a retirement representative who comes to campus twice a semester. Maybe it’s time. You should think about that. I’m like, sure, why not? And so I did. Um, we had a good conversation in the course of the conversation.

She just ran me through everything you said. And so 55, as long as I stay at Albion through age 55, you can then retire and tap these funds without penalty. So

Eric: did, did they give you the application for the Gold Watch or, you know, with the chain that goes into the pocket?

Drew: No, if I looked at the dude on the Monopoly game, no, I don’t want to.

That’s not my idea of retirement, which is Oh, which is another thing too. Eric, what would you do when you retire? Because that’s, that’s the big question for me. Cause I like what I do when I’m in the weeds, so to speak. Um, it’s when I have time to step back and look at the big picture that I’m starting to be like, why am I doing this?

So I try not to step back and look at the big picture

Eric: anymore. Well, I, you know, I think. I think I would probably take the route as many of our colleagues have done. I might retire from Boise State, but I wouldn’t [00:50:00] retire from psychology. Right, exactly. So I would, I would stay involved with the podcast for a little while.

I would stay involved with writing here and there. Um, You know, there’s some psych Hi projects. I’d like to circle back to that I’d never really got as far as I, I could, you know, the chair thing kind of consumed me way more than I thought it would. I put so many things in the back burner. I, I resigned from a couple of things.

Uh, wow. Because, oh, yeah, I, I, oh it in the, I can’t blame Covid. I, I, it consumed me more. I’ve. , I’m delayed on a couple of books. I didn’t used to miss deadlines. I mean, I’m gonna circle back to some things once I’m done with

Drew: this. Yeah. Well I’m sure if I look at my, my, my files, I can say, oh yeah, that didn’t get done did it.

So maybe that’s what I need to do to Oh,

Eric: I thought you were gonna say, I look back at my files and Yeah. You still haven’t finished some reviews from when I was

Drew: editor. Oh. At this point? Yeah. I couldn’t care. Believe me. No, I, I’m sure you did finish all the reviews. Cause I did close those out. I, I do know Yeah,

Eric: you probably handed off stuff to Aaron.[00:51:00]

Damnit Landrum hasn’t finished this crap yet. Make him finish this before you give him anything else.

Drew: I seriously doubt that. No, I think every, everything. I will say this, the transition, at least on my end over to Aaron, went very smoothly. Now, granted we had to do this during Covid, but we had so much done before Covid that once Covid hit, yeah, I think we were okay.

And he seems to be, they seem to be getting a lot of submissions. So it’s kinda like watching my child go off to college, so to speak. I mean, it clearly proud Papa. Clearly looks like it’s, it’s doing well in, in good hands, no doubt about

Eric: that. Yeah. Do you watch the impact factor? Does he, do you make sure he doesn’t blow it?

It keeps at least, at least steady for improving.

Drew: Uh, I’m not really washing over her shoulder that much, to be honest with you. I’m not over the

Eric: shoulder, but you can log on and see what the impact factor is. I’m

Drew: just, I, I, I like to just kind of, I actually, I don’t do well, I could do that, but when I log on, I just wanna read the articles that are there.

Like, I guess I could look for that information, but, The impact factor is if it’s going down now, that’s probably more on me than on him, just because it takes so long for that impact factor to actually develop. So there’s usually a [00:52:00] two or three year at least lead before you see the effects of what’s going on today reflected in the impact factor?

No, you’re very kind. So, and I don’t think it’s going down from what I’ve heard. If anything, it’s going up. I mean, he’s. . He’s not short on submissions. He doesn’t have many days off. I mean, there were times when I was editor, I mean, I’d go three or four days without a submission. I don’t think they’re having that problem.

Eric: So I, I’m, I’m gonna stop here pretty soon. Do you ever look at, do you ever look at the journal now and you look at the table of contents and you go, I would’ve never accepted that for publication. There’s no way. What is he thinking?

Drew: No, and I, I, I, no, I never say that. In fact, really? Other journals now, when I, even when I see someone like, oh, roll my eyes, I don’t know what that paper’s been through before because there were papers that I accepted that looked nothing like they did when they were submitted.

Well, oh sure. Yeah. Generally for better, I think. Right. So without knowing the backstory, I mean, you have no idea how long that paper may have. Right. And you can get something from initial submission and so forth. But there were, you know, some that were initially submitted, you know, four years ago. Um, what happened [00:53:00] during those four years, you just don’t know.

And especially now, These papers may have been submitted. I, you know, right at the beginning of the pandemic, you just don’t, I mean, people, some people were extremely productive because they were sitting at home. Other people couldn’t do anything cuz they were sitting at home. So I, I don’t know that I’m as judgmental about that stuff and part of it is just, I know I accepted stuff.

I look back and why did I accept that? So if I do that with Aaron, I’m, I’m sure I’ve got plenty of my own that I’m like, I shouldn’t have accepted that.

Eric: All right. Maybe it, maybe it’s, you look at the table of contents of scholarship of teaching and learning and psychology and you go, oh man, I rejected that three times.

I can’t believe those guys over there accepted that.

Drew: Well, even there, no, because not everything that gets rejected is bad, so to speak. I mean, it could just be, it’s not complete enough. And so, publishing it somewhere, especially in this day and age where people can access stuff they’re interested in fairly.

it could lead to something better on down the road by those same authors or somebody else. So, no, I mean, I mean, I’ve never started a journal from scratch. You did? And so, yeah, I can imagine there were some situations in which you’re like, [00:54:00] ah, yeah, we need to publish something. So that’s gonna happen.

Eric: Drew Christopher, you’re a scholar and a gentleman.

I gave you the chance to dish the dirt and you, you rejected it. Good for you.

Drew: Well, I. Yeah, I mean I, I’ve, there’s, I just know the system so to speak. Yes, you do. Like editing is, I mean, I can do that and it’s terrible. It really is like, I’m like, cuz some papers for students, I’m like, okay, just great on the ideas.

Don’t mark it. I will sit here like this with my hands literally about as tied together as I can get them turning. You see how they’re turning white knuckle? Yes. Trying not to pick up the pen and just comment on the big picture, cuz that’s what I like to do. Um, and again, there’s a human factor involved here too.

You just dunno what’s going on in people’s lives. And so who knows what that paper had to go through, what they could have done had they had the opportunity, but because of something at home or something at work. And we’ve all had that over the past two and a half years. So I’m trying to be generous. I admit my generosity might be running low at times, but [00:55:00] you’re a good man.

Drew Christopher, we try to do what we.

Eric: You’re good man. Thanks for sitting down with me this morning. This has been great. Yeah, thank you. I really appreciate your time. Thank you much. Always a pleasure

Drew: talking with you.

Published On: January 26th, 2023 / Categories: Podcast Transcript /